only thing you missed is pipeline losses in pumping the crude oil
from one place to another.
Which brings me to an interesting conversation.
In August I sent my 1993 Corvette back to Chicago to be worked on my
the only ZR-1 mechanic in the country and then drove it back to the
On stopping in Green River Wyoming for gasoline,
I struck up a conversation with a person driving a Ford Dualie (4
wheels in the back) who was hauling an 8 foot trailer.
He told me that the trailer contained 2 powerful pumps weighing in at
8,000 lbs from TX to Seattle that were capable of pumping 55 gpm of
He further explained that by adding some kind of 'thinner' to the
crude, it was more profitable to pay for him to drive 2500 miles one
way to convert the oil to a lighter grade, ...
So much for talking to strangers at a gas station :-)
>Start with the primary energy of the fuel.
>first, subtract 11-25% for *embedded energy*. Coal didn't levitate
>itself to the power plant (11% for mining & transpo); nor did gasoline
>refine itself or get to the pump by itself, 14% of petroleum is burned
>at the refinery for process heat just so it can run itself. A
>supertanker burns as much as 10% of its load just getting from A to B.
>Next, subtract 40-70% of what's left for *thermodynamic conversion*
>loss. Integrated gas-fired combined cycle (IGCC) is quite good, throwing
>away only 40% of the refined fuel's energy as waste heat, and modern
>top-of-the-line stationary diesels are almost that good, throwing away
>mid-40s to mid-50s. Nukes are fair, throwing away 60%. Old-fashioned
>non-pulverized non-supercritical coal is not so good.
>*T&D losses* total to about 9%, on average nationwide. Most of that is
>line loss over long distances. Modern transformers are quite efficient,
>losing on the order of a percent at each step-up or step-down.
>So, in sum, at most half, and generally less than a third, of the
>primary energy of the fuel shows up at your wall socket in the form of
>Not as fine-grained an answer as you were looking for, but you can
>place relative contributions in the ballpark. Fenway, not Yellowstone.
>"George Neville-Neil" <[log in to unmask]> asked:
>> I'm wondering where I would look to find the amount of power lost
>> in different parts of the power grid. Basically how much
>> power is lost at:
>> 1) Cable connections on high transmission lines.
>> 2) The lines themselves
>> 3) A typical (?) substation.
>> 4) A neighborhood transformer.
>Robert G Kennedy III, PE
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